The Podcast
Show Links
- Crazy for Ewe - https://www.crazyforewe.com
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Transcript
Scott Austin:
Hey everyone. Scott Austin here, and this week we have a guest with us. Her name is Ellen Lewis and she is the owner of the Shopify Store. Crazy for you. Welcome Ellen.
Ellen Lewis:
Thanks. Thanks so much for having me. Scott.
Scott Austin:
Can you tell us a little bit about Crazy for you? What is it that your business is?
Ellen Lewis:
Okay, so your listeners probably can't see that it's crazy for e w E, which is pronounced you, but it's a female sheep, so it's kind of an inside joke. And I sell yarn. I sell everything that you would need to make sweaters, garments, anything knitted or crochet.
Scott Austin:
Nice, nice. And how did you get into this business?
Ellen Lewis:
I started knitting when I was in college and there was a little yarn store near where I went to school and I used to go and hang out there and I really, really liked it. It was just, it was just so much fun to be there and to meet the other ladies. And it was, it was kind of like what they call a third place, you know, it was, it wasn't home, it wasn't school, and it, it just was a place that I felt comfortable and they were very nice and welcoming and they helped me learn. And I bought a bunch of stuff and, you know, after college I always thought, Oh, it would be so nice to own a yarn store like that. But no, I had a degree and I went off and I did stuff and then life happened and everything just sort of fell into place for me to kind of fill this dream that I'd wanted to do for a long time.
Scott Austin:
And how long is crazy for you? Been around?
Ellen Lewis:
So I opened the brick and mortar store in 2004.
Scott Austin:
Your retail first, and then you got into online later.
Ellen Lewis:
Absolutely. Brick and mortar first. I mean, I've had a Shopify store since 2012, and I had a, I had a website, you know, without really a huge intention of doing eCommerce, to be honest. I kind of resisted eCommerce for a long time because, I mean, you open a yarn store because it's about community, it's about interacting with the people and helping them get, get stuff and, and my image of eCommerce was, you know, warehouse packing stuff up very anonymous without that personal touch. And that really wasn't what I wanted in a business. I wanted the interaction with the people and, you know, the very hands on kind of helping and building community and getting to know folks.
Scott Austin:
So you've had the, the retail store for 18 years, a website for a little while, and then the past 10 years you've been in eCommerce and you know that that's a long time ago. Now you've been in e-commerce for 10 years. How do you today balance between online and retail? Are they separate businesses in your mind? Do you focus on one or the other? How, how do you manage those two different channels?
Ellen Lewis:
I don't see them as separate businesses, honestly. I know that they, they probably are, and I should be measuring them in different ways. But the truth is that a lot of people come through the store, you know, on vacation or, you know, visiting or whatever because, you know, the little tiny town that I'm in has kind of become a tourist destination. And people come in and, you know, they're like, Oh, I love this store, I love this. Oh my gosh, do you, do you se do you send stuff out? You know, do you do phone orders and all of that. So that's sort of why I started the eCommerce. But even now, people that are local will order online. You know, there <laugh>, it's gotten to be obviously such a thing. And I mean, definitely post pandemic when I was, you know, when I really got serious with the, with the online it's the same business. A lot of the customers are the same, you know, they may come into the shop or they may order online and it, you know, it doesn't really matter. I do have in-store pickup so people can see my newsletter, order the thing, and then come and pick it up the next day or whatever. I can mail it to him, It doesn't matter. So to me, it's the same business. It's just a different fulfillment methodology.
Scott Austin:
Excellent. And the topic I wanted to bring you on for the podcast today was about community. And it's interesting is, as you're talking about your business, you've already brought up community a couple times. So it sounds like it's really important for like, you know, you go back to why you got into this space cuz you saw the local yarn store as that third space for you. Which I, I think is community. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how you have a community around your business and, and what is, what does the word community mean for crazy, for you?
Ellen Lewis:
Community is about people making connections. I guess the thing about knitting and it being that third place is that people come in a lot of times when they have no real knitting emergency, they don't necessarily need to buy anything. They just want a friendly space to be. And they know that whenever they come in there, whoever is in is gonna be glad to see them and welcome them kind of with open arms. I have a, a poster that somebody made for me and it has the the lyrics from the Cheers theme song mm-hmm. <Affirmative> <laugh>. And, and it's funny because people, I do know people's names, I do remember their names. It's just a thing that is important to me. It's remembering people's names. So they come in, I, I remember their name, I call them by name. And when they come into the shop, I have a big table in the middle, and if there's anybody else sitting there, I always introduce everybody around.
Ellen Lewis:
So it's, it's a very friendly, welcoming space. And that community, people know that it's available for them. You know, when they're my customers, they, they bring their projects, they come in, they get help, and sometimes they just hang out. And I really do try to foster that in the shop. We used to have Friday mornings we would do coffee, called it coffee for You, and we would put on a big pot of coffee and sometimes people would bake something or whatever, but it was the thing, it was a time to be together because they knew that there was gonna be that engagement, that there would be other people there to hang out with. And it, it's so interesting over the years, I've noticed, and I've mentioned, and I've shared with my whole community, the fact that people come and they have nothing in common except the fact that they'd like to knit.
Ellen Lewis:
I mean, we have women from all walks of life, from all different backgrounds and ages and whatnot, but, but they all come because they love to knit and they're customers of the store and they meet each other and it's, it's phenomenal. They, they love it that the kinds of differences in ages, you know, you'll have young women who have small children, you have women who have grandchildren that age. And the kind of sharing there, I mean, I hate to say that it's, it's a woman thing, but in the shop it really is kind of a woman thing. And you know, there's this sort of mother, daughter, sister, aunt relationship among all of us that fills a need for a lot of, for a lot of us. You know, some of us have lost our moms. Some of us don't have great relationships with our moms, some of us don't have children, but, you know, really love the kind of interaction with, with younger people. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, does that make sense?
Scott Austin:
Oh, it, it totally does. For you, you know, in your business community is is essentially people coming to your store for a purpose or a class or how does that work? What, what, what do these community things look like? You know, you mentioned the table in the store, What else is there?
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah, well, I do have in person classes a lot and we have things called net alongs where we have a kind of a simple project and everybody's making the same thing. So that's a further way of kind of building that, that community relationship. You know, you're linked by the fact that you're working on the same project and maybe you're struggling with the same thing or you know, ooh, what color did you choose? You know, how does that look? Which RNA you using? So we have that. Plus we think the thing that's important is I do this newsletter, you know, and the newsletter, like I said, it goes out every week. It's not just, here's a bunch of stuff you can buy. It's very, very personal. Like I said, it started early in the, in the business. And I, you know, I write about what's happening in my life.
Ellen Lewis:
I write about knitting and I, I write about struggles and self care and perfectionism and relationships and all those kinds of things. So people, people feel like they know me through that newsletter because I do share very candidly, you know, about what's going on in my life and my kids and my dogs. And so when people come in, a lot of times they'll say, Oh, I'm so glad to meet you. I I love your newsletter. I read your newsletter. People feel like they know me and that's a relationship that I have with each of them. And then if I have that with them, they can then have that with each other.
Scott Austin:
Your community is, is fairly deep. And what I mean by that is, you know, a lot of communities, especially in online stores, they're bringing people together around the topic, around the product. So, you know, I'm just gonna pick up my phone because of the first thing in front of me. Like, so I might go on an Android phone user forum, and we all just talk about phones, but we don't, it's not personal, it's about the phone where your community is more personal. And it sounds like you're bringing the common activity of knitting to bring human beings together versus talking about the product and the knitting. It's actually allowing people to learn about one another and make true social connections, sort of like a, an og social network where, you know, back in, back in days of old, we did go to these third spaces for me, when I was a kid, I was in the volunteer fire department.
Scott Austin:
So in my high school years, the volunteer firehouse was my third space. Anytime that I'd no place to go and didn't wanna hang out at home, I'd go down the firehouse and there'd be able to be, always be a couple of people there. We'd hang out, watch tv, play pool, whatever, and just, just hang out. And it sounds like for your community, your store is a place where they can come in and just hang out, meet other people, smile, laugh, and while we're doing that, you know, the, the bond that brings us together and causes us to form these relationships is our common interest in knitting. Is that, is that
Ellen Lewis:
That is true. That is absolutely accurate. And I think, I think you've hit it right on the head. I will say <laugh>, we're not a community center. I mean, we're a business, so I am pretty clear that these are crazy for you. Projects they're coming in, in with <laugh> and bringing, you know. Yep. So, I mean, I like to make it clear that it's for my customers, I don't really have an, an issue with that, you know what I'm saying?
Scott Austin:
My assumption is that would never be a problem. I, I just, it sounds to me like that would totally be understood and implied and not have to be explicitly said. Is, is, have you had to explicitly say that before?
Ellen Lewis:
Well, I think in the past, I think when I first started, and, and honestly when I first started the shop, I was a brand new yarn store. So certainly there were gonna be knitters around who had yarn from Heaven. No. Where, you know, people knitters have stash, right? That's, that's what we do. We go on vacation, we don't buy it, you know, with souvenir NickNack, we buy scan yarn. So everybody had souvenir yarn, they had projects half finished. So they came in and I, I welcomed them and I was really happy for them to have found the shop and to see that, yeah, we are here and we do know what we're talking about. And yeah, you have that project finished from, you know, five years ago. And yeah, we, we'll help you get sorted out with that. But the expectation of course is that going forward, you're gonna be getting your projects from us. And I, I think people do really get that it is a friendly, welcoming place, but I think it's, it's pretty clear that you're not gonna bring yarn from the craft store in and expect to be, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't take your hamburger to from McDonald's and sit down at a restaurant someplace else and eat it there. <Laugh>
Scott Austin:
I'm laughing as you're saying this, cuz in my mind I can see a Seinfeld episode where George Costan shows up the book club, but brings his book instead of the book club book, Right. It's not cool. Today we're reading this book over here and Cassandras going, No, we gotta talk about this one. And I was like, it's just, it's just so absurd. It would make a Seinfeld episode, I would think.
Ellen Lewis:
That's a brilliant Seinfeld episode. I lo I love, I love Seinfeld.
Scott Austin:
What do you think are the benefits of having this community as part of your store?
Ellen Lewis:
Honestly, you know, from a, from a sales perspective, just getting people into the store to see what, you know, what we've got is crucial. I mean, it's traffic. Yep. The having, having the people come into the store for whatever reason. I'm not, I'm not a big into sales, I'm not a hard sale person, You know, I'm like, Here's this, I think it's lovely if you would like to make it, you know, here's what you will need. But people aren't sitting at home thinking, Gosh, I have no yarn at all. <Laugh>, because they do, and they probably have five projects on needles already, but when they come in and they see this beautiful new thing, it's like anything, you go to the store, you don't, you don't need any new clothes, You have plenty of clothes. You go to the store and you see something go, Wow, that's really pretty.
Ellen Lewis:
Maybe I should get that. Or, or whatever. You go to the grocery store, your sales are a lot lower when you go to the grocery store with a list and you don't look at anything else <laugh>. But when you go in and you're just kind of hanging around, you know, Oh, look at that. Chips are on sale, <laugh>, you're gonna buy the chips. So it's like that. So the community coming in, having people come into the store gives me a chance to tempt them with what's new. And like I said, I'm not a hard sell. If you, if you want it, great, we have it. If you don't, I get that, you know, you probably have a million other projects and you know, whatever. But coming in and staying connected, I think when they come in, it is sort of a, a cyclical thing. You know, you come in, you, you see your friends, you realize, Oh my gosh, I love knitting. I love crazy for you. I love being there. I do love this project. Or I'm tired of this project or whatever. It just, I don't know, it's a real feel good kind of thing, you know? And sometimes you just want a company, but you don't necessarily wanna talk to anybody mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and you just don't wanna be alone.
Scott Austin:
Yep. That totally makes sense. So do you have, do you have a whole set of, of regulars and like they show up every single week or however often you have classes? Or is it more lighter in, in attention or focus from an individual person?
Ellen Lewis:
Well, you know, it's like anything that 80 20, we, we definitely have our regulars and I have three, three people on staff plus me. And we all work at different, different times. And Mary is in on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and Mary has, I, I call him her, you know, her Mary Groupies and Jenny has her group and you know, we all kind of have those people that gravitate to one or more of us for a particular reason. Mary is an accessory knitter and she does scarves and shawls and stuff like that. And you know, her stuff is very light and very fun and, you know, the people come in and, and you know, if it's 11 o'clock on a on a Thursday, you know Evelyn's gonna be there. Right. And Judy, so I can sort of tick off the people that are gonna be there when Mary's there.
Ellen Lewis:
Jenny May works just one night a week. And the occasional Saturdays, I can tell you who's gonna be at the table when Jenny's, you know, in, and I have my people, they wanna be with me or you know, Jenny Stein, she is the technical genius. And when I have a problem with my knitting, it's Jenny I go to right <laugh>. So she's like, and, and it's funny because her daughter is my age, so she always says, I'm the mom, I have to keep Ellen in line. And I just love her. She's, she's kinda like a mom to me. But I think people who sort of wander through, they're not sure what it's like. So I try to make it very clear. She, you know, people will ask, Do you have a, like an open knitting time or regular knitting time? Which is something most arn stores do. I don't want you to think for a minute that I'm unique in this. Most yarn stores have this kind of community around them. But I always tell people, you know, you're welcome anytime, and, and I close the newsletter with you are always welcome here. So people know that they're welcome and if they, if they need a little quick help or whatever, you know, come in and, and hang out your, there's always a spot at the table for you.
Scott Austin:
So you mentioned the table, I assume it's like in the, in the center of your store. And you just kind of alluded to the fact that you really don't have a schedule. Is there a schedule for people or is it more of a the open invite?
Ellen Lewis:
It's really the open invite. It used to be that, like I said, we had that Friday morning thing and that was sort of when everybody came because a lot of people here work on the base and they have a compressed work schedule and they get every other Friday off. So they would come on Friday. But things shifted a lot with the pandemic. We had to stop the, you know, the, around the table. I mean that was like the ultimate thing you didn't wanna do is get a bunch of people together in a small space. Not that it's a small space. I mean, you have 2,400 square feet. Yeah. I didn't, I couldn't have those in person classes. And that's why it was so important that I create an a virtual community, which I did. You know, because people still wanna be together, you know, they still need that casual, relaxed opportunity to interact.
Scott Austin:
Yep. So how did you, because it sounds like because of Covid you created the virtual community. What does that look like and what is different in the virtual community versus the, the old school retail store community?
Ellen Lewis:
We, we do have a lot of ni alongs, which are virtual and we're still doing that because what we found is that a lot of people have found us because of the podcast that I do now. Every Wednesday night I go live and you know, I have people that are discovering the shop from far away and they're like, how can I be involved? So you know, I mentioned Jenny Stein and her daughter that's my age, She's also a knitter and she's actually running a knit along, she lives in Massachusetts, so it's a zoom knit along for everybody who's making this one sweater and she's running that. And so we have people from Michigan and California and some local people and people all over that connect over zoom in very much the same way that you would if you were at the table. You know,
Scott Austin:
It's amazing to me how the pandemic changed our ability to communicate with one another in video. And like in 2018, the, the idea of a, a community zoom for knitters would've been impossible. But in 2022 it's like an absolute no brainer cuz everybody in the world now knows how to use any video system, especially Zoom. And it's just, it's one of those paradigm shifts that I think our whole entire society's gonna be so different. Not because of the fact we went through this pandemic, but because we learned a new skill and got over the inhibitions. Like when I first started doing these, you know, these video conferences, right now you and I are on Google Meet and we're looking at each other and talking, even though the audience is like listening to us. When I started doing these Google meets years ago, like 2018, it amazed me how many people that I'd be talking to and collaborating with online would not turn on their camera. And I don't think that's happened in years now where everybody just turns on the camera. Nobody's afraid of being on, on video and that kind of stuff anymore because we've gotten comfortable with these new tools and I can see how you could use that, you know, in your community and, and just use that tool like you're saying that that actually sounds really cool.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you, I've been through a variety of, of tools. <Laugh>, you know, there's one thing to have the camera like showing my face, like when I do the podcast, people wanna see the camera, but, you know, knitting is, you know, ni knitting is about technique and sometimes it's about closeups. So I've been through a variety of technologies, <laugh>, you know, getting a decent microphone, getting a, a camera that's going to, not just the one that, you know, you can see my face on, but one that I can show my hands and close up what I'm doing that actually is gonna have the, the technology that's not gonna be jittery. And, you know, it took a long time to figure that out, but we're there. Right? And so it's, it really is a boon to not just my kind of business or community, but a lot of 'em, you know, a lot of people are teaching piano or you know, all kinds of things via Zoom now and digital courses and that whole thing is phenomenal.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. And then I think you, you brought out an important point, which is we've all just gotta figure that out and learn, right? So you, you have to have the right equipment, which is gotta take your while to figure out like what is the right microphones, what is the right camera set? You need two cameras, you need to face camera and a hand camera to top down one and all that kind of stuff. And then what software you're gonna use. But as store owners today, to me that type of content creation is so important to your business that you need to figure that out and learn those skills and develop that knowledge. So it's in your tool belt of things you can do. And
Ellen Lewis:
Absolutely. You, you taught, I mean it's been amazing to have met you and to have worked with you even just so far it's been phenomenal. You talk about content creation and I, you know, I love your podcast. I listen to it and that's really sort of changed the way that I am writing my newsletter, but also customer acquisition, you know, you talk about that and it is, it's striking how many people find the store from a variety of sources. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, from the YouTube podcast. And now lately I've noticed from the content that I've very carefully put together, not because I'm, you know, trying to sell anything but it's good content and the newsletter is has become a more useful vehicle for my customers. You know, when I'm writing content that I want to have on the website, like what are the different weights of yarn? I just did a blog post on that and I put it out there. I noticed that somebody signed up for my newsletter because they had found me through that blog post. You know, I'm not sure if I had a point in there
Scott Austin:
<Laugh>. No, it's a really good point. So we, we were talking about metrics, right? And, and how you're doing these and, and how do you know you measure what's working, what's not. It sounds like, cuz I was assuming that your community would be a retention tool. You acquire customers through all your channels and use your community to reengage them. But you're also saying that it's an acquisition tool for you because you're doing these things on YouTube and on a blog that content gets pushed out and that draws new people in who may not have found you otherwise. So your community is both customer acquisition and customer retention.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah. Trying to think. I mean, I think you are right that it is probably more customer retention. Mm-Hmm.
Scott Austin:
<Affirmative>,
Ellen Lewis:
I'm trying to think about how, about how community would be customer acquisition. I mean obviously the classes. Yep. Certainly in person classes, people come because it can be as welcoming as we try to be in the space. It can be intimidating to walk into a space where there's a table full of people who are chatting who clearly know each other and just sit down and introduce yourself. You know, I'm sure that's pretty intimidating. I'm not sure I would wanna do it. <Laugh>
Scott Austin:
Intimidation right? Is cuz you mentioned they all know each other and that kind of stuff. But what I've always found, for me personally, the intimidation is also skill set, right? Like when I wanna go be new and you join a group, you're like, all these people know how to do it already. Like, and that's been a big intimidator for me. So I can see, you know, your knitters are like your new newbie, you know, your newbie knitters, you're like, ah, these people are so good. But what I've always found totally, once you join the community, the experts love the newbies cause they love sharing their knowledge, right? And the newbies love the experts cuz they learn more quickly. And it's one of those virtuous cycles that it's just beautiful to see happen over and over again.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. So in addition to like the regular like weekly kind of stuff, we do classes and I think those in person classes are sometimes how people kind of break in or feel like they're comfortable breaking in because it's a class, right? Everybody's, and, and when I have a class, I always go around the room, introduce yourself, you know, how long you've been knitting, what do you hope to get outta the class, blah, blah, blah. Just to sort of, I, not an icebreaker because it sounds so, but you know what I mean. I do a retreat twice a year and I bring people from all over into the shop, you know, and we have three days together to do knitting stuff and we we go out to dinner and we, you know, we drink and we eat and we, you know, we snack and we learn stuff.
Ellen Lewis:
And then the last day is Sunday and I do a, a show and share brunch where people will knit all year to do something that they're gonna show at the show and share brunch. So, you know, you have people showing these fabulous things. I had to limit it. You know, you can only show three things <laugh>. Okay. Cause you are bringing out all this stuff. And I mean, it's wonderful. But you know, you, I I have usually 30 people there and I want everybody to have a chance to share their stuff. So anyway, people are sharing these amazing things. And I had this woman who was kind of brand new and she knit exactly one thing and it was a hat. Another woman had something just on her needles. Like she had even finished a whole thing and everybody at her table was like, Oh, come on Susan, you've gotta go, you've gotta share.
Ellen Lewis:
And she's like, I don't have anything to share, but you know, she was a sport. And she stood up and she said, I'm Susan and you know, I've been knitting for about two weeks. <Laugh>, I'm working on this. You know, everybody was like, yay. You know what I mean? And it, it really was, I don't know, it just makes my heart so happy when I see that because it, it really is. And I do think this is probably unique to my store. I have the nicest customers. I have had teachers from all over the world teach here. Really famous, you know, you wouldn't know their names. We call 'em the nitrate <laugh>. Yep, yep. 2 0 1. They tell me, Wow, you really have the nicest customers. They really are lovely. And these are people who've taught everywhere.
Scott Austin:
I think that's probably a function of you and your store staff and the environment that you foster, you know, by being supportive, introducing everybody and, and probably things you don't even think about. And maybe some of them you do, but it's not just that make it that nice of an environment.
Ellen Lewis:
Well I do credit my team. They're amazing. They are, you know, wonderful, wonderful. And I'm pretty careful when I select team members, I can teach anybody to knit, right? I can't teach anybody to be a particular type of person, you know, kind and patient. And I don't know, there's just a whole bunch of stuff that goes into it. And I kind of, I kind of like, I'll identify people, you know, if she ever wants a job, I would hire her, you know, she's ever available. I would, I would bring her on Ginny and Mary, I knew when I first met them that I wanted them on the team. And I asked him and asked him, asked him, and they said, No, no, no. And then finally I'm like, come on, you know, you could do this. He's just a couple days a week <laugh>. They've been with me 10, 12 years. <Laugh>.
Scott Austin:
So that's, I, you know, I think that's one of the important things about community is, is you know, the people that are managing the community, there's all these best practices out on the internet and, and there's nothing, I always say there's nothing wrong with any best practice you hear. Most likely. They're all true. The only question is, are they true for you? You know, everybody's listening like, Oh community, this sounds great, I'm gonna do that. But just to be honest with yourself, are you the kind of person who can manage a community like me personally? No, I'm not. Right <laugh>, I, I don't wanna see people and new people every day and introduce myself. That's why I work alone in my garage, right? <Laugh>. Which is perfect for me, but for other people it's not. So I think people have to be honest with themselves about what their strengths are and what their skills are and then use that self-evaluation to determine how they're gonna apply that to their business.
Scott Austin:
So, you know, people are listening like, yeah, I love the idea of community. Well if you're an outgoing friendly kind, you smile at, at people when they first walk in naturally. Cuz I, I literally do not. Right? But if you're that kind of person, then you should think about adding community to your store. If you're the kind of person that doesn't wanna get distracted, doesn't like, you know, talking to new people that maybe community's not for your business even though community could benefit it. But it's not the right thing for you. So you shouldn't add it to, to your store.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah, I would say you're absolutely right. You have to like people, I mean all people <laugh>, I always tell, I would tell my kids, I tell everybody else, you know, the people who are the hardest to love are the ones who need it the most.
Scott Austin:
<Laugh>.
Ellen Lewis:
And I'm, you know, you kind of have to, you have to know that you're right. You have to know that about yourself. And if that sounds like the worst thing in the world for you to be spending your time doing, then don't, I mean, you can build your business by being this super efficient, fastest shipping, you know, whatever. I'm not that I'm not the fastest shipper and you know, if somebody sends me an, you know, an order and there's a crisis, I might just reach, reach out and say, Hey it's Ellen. Thank you so much for your order. I just have to tell you, you know, this and this happened and I'm not gonna be able to ship this out for two days. Is that okay? Or, you know, when somebody places an order and this is the bane of my existence, my inventory is wrong and we don't actually have the thing that they ordered mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, which happens. I mean you can imagine I've got, you know, thousands of different yarns and each one has dozens of different colors and whatever. Yeah. Having to call somebody up and say Hey <laugh>, we don't have that color, but you know what, this color would work. It's really, really close. Can I send you a picture? So it is a very personal touch kind of thing. Yep. And if that's not something you like to do, then this maybe isn't your kind of business
Scott Austin:
<Laugh>. Yeah. So I wanna go back cuz you mentioned something that I had not heard you talk about before. Cuz we, we have interacted in the past and that is, I forget what you called it, but you fly people in for three days or they fly themselves in for three days and, and do your, your little knit knitting power by
Ellen Lewis:
Retreat. Yeah. Your retreat retreat.
Scott Austin:
How did you get started on the retreat? I mean, how long have you been doing that and cause that sounds like a commitment on their part and on your part to set that all up and organize it.
Ellen Lewis:
Well, it's kind of funny. So I started in 2012 and it was actually a group of customers that were my Wednesday night regulars in the playout. I used to have another location and this group got together on Wednesday nights and they really, you know, really liked to be together. And we used to go to other places. So I would plan a big event. I would find a cute little town that had a hotel within walking distance and, you know, cute little main street downtown kind of place. And I would rent the hotel rooms and I would plan the meals and all the stuff. And then I would sell it as a package. And we did that every year. It was usually spring or summer every year since 2012. And we did not do it obviously in 2020. And in 2021 that summer, it was a year after and, you know, know the vaccinations had been in and everybody was vaccinated and you know, we all felt pretty safe, but nobody really felt safe, that safe traveling.
Ellen Lewis:
So the town that I live in had just had the ho the local hotel completely refurbished. And so it was just like a perfect setting. I mean, when I look for a little town, it was exactly like the little town that I live in, you know, a hotel right there. And it was great because I was in control. Now it was at my store, it was at my space, and I could sort of bring the people in and manage that. And I, and I knew what the expenses were gonna be and I, I had a relationship with the the owners of the different restaurants. So I could do that. I knew the caterers, I knew the lay of the land. It got to be so good that now I'm doing it twice a year. And I tell people ahead of time, Hey, here's the date for the retreat.
Ellen Lewis:
I block a set of rooms. I don't know, you can probably tell I love to entertain. I mean, I entertain at home. I love to have parties, I love to do events. I love to bring people together and make them happy. I love to cook. So, you know, I'll, I'll bake this or that. Even when I have classes, you know, I usually, if it's a full day class, I'll usually bring in a light lunch that I've made some salad or you know, bread or whatever. It's kind of warm and homey. But you know, that's who I am. <Laugh>.
Scott Austin:
That's
Ellen Lewis:
Just who I
Scott Austin:
Am. Well, and that's what your community likes, right? That's how they sell them back. Have you retreats, have you, do you always sell out your retreat? And if you do Oh yeah. How hard advance do you sell them out?
Ellen Lewis:
One of the retreats, it was funny, I sold it out in three days and they, I mean they're not cheap. They run a couple hundred, 300 bucks and that does not include the hotel.
Scott Austin:
Okay. I was gonna say for, for three days of food in bed, embedding. That's not a bad price, but
Ellen Lewis:
I get No, no, that does not include the hotel. It includes dinner Friday night, full day workshop on Saturday, lunch on Saturday, and brunch on Sunday. Cuz everybody's on their own for dinner Saturday night. Yep. And I, you know, I do nice. I, I give everybody a nice tote bag that's got the, you know, the logo and, and everything on there and it's, it's got swag and fun stuff. Yeah.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. I, I can do,
Ellen Lewis:
But I try to make it really, really nice. I want people to leave feeling pampered and spoiled. Like, Oh, this was so great. I love this. There's lots of snacks and
Scott Austin:
<Laugh>. Yep.
Ellen Lewis:
So it's important to me. And we do, you know, we do a little wine and cheese thing on Friday night and I usually have a fancy trunk show and I partner with my vendors. I have some really great vendors who give me swag and stuff. And, you know,
Scott Austin:
It's just amazing. Like I said earlier, that is such a piece of work to organize and put together and, and you're just randomly spewing off, like every question I would ask, like, do you get vendors involved and all that kind of stuff. Like, you're doing it all. And I imagine that over time, you know, like every year you get better at it kinda thing.
Ellen Lewis:
I would hope so. Yeah. We do. We, we really have, I think we have honed it to the point where we know exactly what works, how many people we can accommodate. What, you know, every, every after every retreat we sit down and we're like, okay, what are lessons learned this time? What could we have done better? What should we have done differently? What worked, what didn't? But you know, people know what to expect and they like that.
Scott Austin:
Is it the same people coming to the retreats every year?
Ellen Lewis:
A lot of 'em are the same. I would say probably 80% are the same people.
Scott Austin:
Wow. What's the part when travels to get there?
Ellen Lewis:
Well, we had someone from Maine mm-hmm. <Affirmative> last time she would've come again. But that, that didn't work out. I had a gal come from Idaho.
Scott Austin:
Yep.
Ellen Lewis:
She, she came because she has a friend who lives nearby and that's kind of how she got hooked up with the shop generally. I have a gal in California, I think she's planning on coming next time. I have a gal from New Orleans that comes. Yep. She's already booked her her flight for the February retreat. <Laugh>.
Scott Austin:
Well, and we didn't mention it, but you're in Maryland so people know, so
Ellen Lewis:
Right. I'm in Maryland. I'm in southern Maryland, which is not on your way to any place at all. <Laugh>. It's a peninsula. It's the southern most peninsula in Maryland. I like to say we are on Maryland's western shore. So you think about how the Chesapeake Bay runs up between the eastern shore, we're on the other side of that water.
Scott Austin:
Yep. So nobody's driving by your store by accident. It's,
Ellen Lewis:
It's no <laugh>. Nobody's on their way to the beach or whatever. I mean, we do have a lot of cool stuff here. Like this is where St. Mary's College of Maryland is, and we're also home to the Navy test pilot school. You know, it's, it's really pretty pa placed with 400 miles of waterfront. So while 80% of our economy is generated by the base or related to the base mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, our second industry is tourism. So agro tourism and wedding destinations and all those kinds of things. And a lot of that centers around leonardtown because it is such a cute little town, you know, and growing.
Scott Austin:
Yep. You were talking about doing retrospectives, which is awesome. If you think about your overall community efforts, like what are the, the highlights of things that have worked well and then what are the things that don't work well? Like what have you learned to keep doing and what have you learned? We're never gonna do that again,
Ellen Lewis:
<Laugh>. Well, we, we do talk about this a lot in, in the shop and with the team. The retreats are hugely successful for us, not just from a community standpoint, but from a sales standpoint. Our sales for that weekend are probably a third of our monthly sale sales goal.
Scott Austin:
So people come to your retreat and then carry home an entire luggage full of your yarn. Is that, is that what you mean by
Ellen Lewis:
That? That's what I mean by that. Okay.
Ellen Lewis:
So that's really good. You know, and a lot of these people don't get a chance to visit the shop on a regular basis. So, you know, they do live far away. They're stocking up and it's not like yarn goes bad, you know, <laugh>, they can keep it as long as they want. So the retreats work really, really well. I just started last season doing something that I love to do and it's so fun and you're gonna hate it. You're gonna think it's horrible, but it is amazing and people love it. I just did an Instagram real on this. It is afternoon tea with Rowan. Rowan is one of my biggest accounts. It's a British company and they sell beautiful, beautiful yarn. And I recently became a Rowan flagship store. So for their launch, you know, we have a spring launch and a fall launch for their launch.
Ellen Lewis:
I have afternoon tea with Rowan and I, I lay it out, I mean 18 people. I bring in bone China and Sterling silver and teapots and I make cucumber sandwiches. I make three different kinds of sandwiches and four different kinds of sweets and scones and cluttered cream and jam and the whole bit. I mean the whole works <laugh> and we serve that and it, it costs $50. And what they get in addition to the tea is they get a copy of the Rowan magazine, which is this beautiful, thick, glossy pattern collection. And they, that costs $30 itself. And then I also give them a little samples of all of the current yards in the Rowan line for that season. So they have like little, little bits they can swatch and play with. And then they just have a great afternoon, you know, drinking tea, looking at their projects, looking at the at the patterns.
Ellen Lewis:
And they usually buy stuff there too. And if they don't buy it that day, you know, they have the book, they have the pattern book. And what's unique about the pattern book is those patterns are not available online. You know, a lot of knitting patterns are available through a resource called rivalry where you can download individual patterns or whatever. These are not available there. They're only available in this book. I mean, that book is out of print. They're not available at all. So it's it's a special event and it, you know, it feels special. We get a little dressed up and, you know, what can I say? We drink Tea <laugh>.
Scott Austin:
Is Rowan involved with that as the vendor or is it just crazy for you doing this?
Ellen Lewis:
Crazy for you doing this? But I have the most amazing rep and he, he calls me every time and he's like, Okay, when is your tea? What can we do to support you? And I mean they, they're very generous to me this year. They gave me a scan of yarn to give to every customer and they gave me a little look book. And, you know, I try not to lean on them too much, but like I said, they're, they're very kind and they're very generous with me. I'm a good customer. I pay my bills on time,
Scott Austin:
<Laugh>. But you know, bringing them in and, and getting the, the free skating arm, like they're adding value to that whole process. It doesn't cost
Ellen Lewis:
A hundred percent.
Scott Austin:
That I think is the best practice is, you know, bring your vendors in to your community because they're going to add value to that. You haven't even think about it.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it is one of those virtuous cycles like you're talking about, you know, the better they support me, the more of their yarn I sell and the more of their yarn I sell, the more yarn of theirs I buy. And it know, it's, it's a high end company. Their yarn is not the cheapest out there, but their designs are gorgeous. Their yarn is, is first rate. And they put so much into the, the whole design process. This is a very, this is a fashion business. People don't understand and they think yarn store, they're thinking Michael's, they're thinking Hobby Lobby, a local yarn story, independent yarn store is part of the fashion chain. The colors and the yarns that you see on our shelf are going to be the colors that you're gonna find and ready to wear. You know, the, the yarns that they're not, you know, bright green and Christmas red. They're, they're fashion colors. They're style, they're dictated by panto. Yep. So, so it's it an experience.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. That, that totally makes sense. You've talked about a couple things you've learned and, and how you're testing things out and, you know, sticking what's, you know, sticking, what works well. What are a couple things you've learned? Like how do you manage a bad community member? Have you ever uninvited somebody or you know, what, what, what's that process look like?
Ellen Lewis:
A while ago I did have a woman who was rude to one of my staff members and I'm not sure how that, how that happened or, or why, but I told her that, that that was just really unacceptable. You know, if she, if she had an issue with, with a product or something that I could make right, that's fine. But there's no call for her to be rude and disparaging to somebody on my team because I told her, this is my family, you know, this is, family is important to me. I tell everybody, customers, team, family first. If you have a crisis with your family and you can't make a class or whatever, it's fine families first. And so these women as an extension of, of that are, you know, they're very important to me and I'm not going to let somebody treat them badly. So I think I told her that she probably wasn't going to find what she was looking for at crazy for you. And I was Sorry, <laugh>.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. So sounds like you used your mom skills,
Ellen Lewis:
<Laugh>. Yeah, I do have four kids. So <laugh>, there's that.
Scott Austin:
So let, let's get ready to close up here. Sure. Let's shift a little bit. Let's talk a little bit about Shopify store owners out there today who don't have a community who aren't doing yarn. What are the kind of things that you think that they should be thinking about for building a community of their own? What what should they be doing?
Ellen Lewis:
Oh my gosh. There are tons of things that you could do if, like, if you are a bicycle store, you could be hosting, you know, bike races or bike rallies or you know, classes on how to maintain your, your bicycle. You know, and you can sub out anything you're purchasing for bicycle. You know how to do anything. I mean, be the hub for people who are interested in your product. Be the the resource where they're going to find other people who love to do what they do. Because, you know, we like people like us, you know, people like, like Seth Go says, people like us do things like this, Right? People who buy high end bicycles, like, you know, high end bike experiences or whatever. Just figure out what it is that your customers are doing together and be the resource for them to do that.
Ellen Lewis:
Do that. So build that connection with yourself, you know, with you and your customers. And then create the relationship and community among your customers being part of that. You know, it can be pretty tangential too. I mean, I take ladies to go get bra fittings because sweaters don't look great unless you've got the great foundation garment. So <laugh>, it could be anything, you know, get people fitted for bike shoes. You might not sell bike shoes, but you know, there's probably someone who does. And, you know, be a be a resource and a community hub where people find what they need through you and they find each other through you.
Scott Austin:
And that makes a lot of sense. Where like people or people like people like them or, you know, I've had a lot of groups that I've been part of in my life that I just called the activity partners, right? Would I ever hang out with this group of people if we weren't doing volleyball together? No, but we have a great time cuz we're doing volleyball together, right? People just enjoy sharing time around a common thing. And that common thing helps you get over some of the things you may not like about that person. Right? Because we're all playing volleyball together, you know, they'll tolerate all my idiosyncrasies and I'll tolerate their, we get along better because we have this common thing that we're doing together, you know, and
Ellen Lewis:
It's the social glue.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. Yeah. That makes
Ellen Lewis:
A lot. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and, and right. We, we do tolerate people. I mean everybody's, we're all weird in our own way. <Laugh>.
Scott Austin:
Absolutely.
Ellen Lewis:
You know, we, we all are, but yeah, it that's absolutely true. We that whatever it is that you do, whatever need that you fill with your Shopify business, there's a way to get your customers together around that. You know, you just have to kind of think on it. Yeah. You know, what are, what are people doing? Where do they like to go? What do they, what else do they do? I mean, people should probably have a customer avatar, you know, what else do your customers do? What's tied closely to your product or your, your business that you can expand on and, and leverage?
Scott Austin:
What I like is when I asked that question, I was expecting a bullet point list cuz I think in bullet points, right? And I was expecting a bullet point list from you do this, do this, do this. And, and you didn't do that. What I love is you said, Hey, think about your customer and your business and you figure it out because it's gonna be different for every business because every business and every customer segment is different. But if you care about community for your business, you can probably sit down for a few minutes, close your eyes and think of some ideas about how to bring them together around this common, you know, thing that they're doing with your products and build community around them.
Ellen Lewis:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's really kind of fun. I mean, I think it makes, it makes the whole business more pleasant generally
Scott Austin:
Yes. For social people like yourself who you probably started a retail store because you like that social interaction with people where I started a a one person web agency cuz I don't like that social interaction, but a lot of store owners are in that space of they wanna meet new people and, and do new things and adding community to that. What I found interesting is conversation is your community also generates you money, your community events is another revenue stream for you. Not only does it sell you more product, but it also the events themselves produce revenue too.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah. That's one of the things that I think you had asked, what what would I stop doing? I'm not gonna do any events that don't provide some revenue for me because it's not No kidding. The lot of work, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, it's, these events are huge amount of work and a lot of times I have to close the store for it. Yep. So if they're not generating revenue, then they're probably not really worth my time because at the end of the day, this is a business and if I'm not making money then I can't be here. I can't be the resource people want. You know, I, I mention this to folks all the time. Oh, I've already bought so much stuff, you know, or whatever. It's like, you know, well you love having this resource here. This is what, this is the engine, you know, your purchases and your support are the engine that allows me to continue to be and exist.
Scott Austin:
Yes. And one the other part about that is by charging for your events, your people are more committed to the event cuz they've got skin in the game they put money in, so they're gonna be more likely attentive and participatory in that event and more likely to buy product because they're already willing to put money down. So it's, it's one of those, those selfing prophecies, it's a nice filter of, to join our community events you have to pay and that just has a lot of benefits down the road.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah. Now the, a lot of the, the events that i, I charge for, I'm not making money on those events. Okay? Yep. They are not revenue generators. I cover my cost. I'm not gonna be losing money on them. Yep. Because <laugh>, but I don't expect them to be money makers. You know, it's the, it's the event that brings the people in to make the sales.
Scott Austin:
Yep.
Ellen Lewis:
It might be in the future events that are more revenue generating, but mostly it's, it's just to cover the cost.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. And, and for you, right. Because you have a consumable product. Right. Once, once I use my yarn and make my sweater, I gotta go buy more yarn. Where on the bicycle events, like going back to your analogy before of a bike shop, they might actually make their events a profit center because they're not gonna make as much money off the person coming to the event who already spent $6,000 for the bicycle. They might buy a couple tire tubes or a lighter whatever, but so they might have to think and and and make that a revenue or profit generator for them, not just a revenue stream.
Ellen Lewis:
Exactly, exactly. That would be, that would be a very different kind of event. But, you know, classes, classes are great. People who buy expensive bikes like that, they may or may not really know how to tune that bike in between. They may take the bike in, you know, twice a year to get serviced in between seasons. But to, you know, to really show them how to, how to care for your bike. What should you be doing for your bike every, before every ride, You know, what should you should be doing for your bike after every ride, you know, and partnering with somebody like the, you know, the, that fuel guy that he's on your podcast, he has the fuel, the the supplements. Rhino
Scott Austin:
Power.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah. Rhino Guy. The Rhino guy. We could partner with him and say, look, this guy provides, you know, nutritional supplements for people who do like powerful writing. Imagine what they do for you and you know, have him in and have him be a speaker and, you know, start selling that stuff. Yeah. You know, there's a million things
Scott Austin:
Build an affiliate revenue model there. Yeah. You're absolutely right. Well, once you bring people together on a common goal, you can monetize them in a bunch of different ways.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah.
Scott Austin:
Like, I, I just watched a video the other day about a guy who's, you know, probably the most popular Airbnb YouTuber on, on YouTube, and he makes like $750,000 a year from his YouTube channel on top of the, you know, the millions he makes doing his Airbnbs. And he showed, I make this much from ads, I make this much from sponsorships, I make this much from affiliates. And he just, what he was showing is when you bring a lot of people together and that audience is valuable, there's multiple ways to monetize them. And that that's, are you saying as you bridge you bring your community together, Think about other ways to monetize them. Because the valuable asset is the people.
Ellen Lewis:
Yes. The eyeballs, the attention.
Scott Austin:
Yes, exactly. <Laugh> and you're doing all the hosting, you know, things to make it a captive audience that is highly engaged during that time.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah. And, and when I charge for stuff, it allows me to make it a better experience.
Scott Austin:
Yes.
Ellen Lewis:
You know, if I was having to, to take all of the expenses associated with the event from the profit, it would no longer be worth it to me to make the experience as high end as it is.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. And that's one of those self fulfilling ones, Right. By having the quality of bar you can charge for, but you couldn't have the quality of bar if you didn't charge for it.
Ellen Lewis:
Exactly. Yes, exactly. <Laugh>. Exactly. That's a really good point. So, yeah, I mean, and people are looking for nice things. I mean, I have a really great demographic in that these are, are women with a, a passion for their hobby. And, you know, let's face it, yarn is not a, you know, necessity. It's definitely something you have to have disposable income for, but it, it's a little bit recession proof in that, you know, people may not go on a big holiday or they may not go out to dinner as much, so they feel like they can treat themselves to mm-hmm. <Affirmative> maybe a new project. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and you know, so when things are tight, people are knitting and when things are flush, people are knitting. <Laugh>
Scott Austin:
Makes a lot of sense.
Ellen Lewis:
Yeah.
Scott Austin:
Well, thank you for your time today. I really appreciate you sharing all this advice and insight for the, the rest of these shop buy owners that are listening to our podcast.
Ellen Lewis:
Well, I hope it's helpful to someone, but thank you for having me.
Scott Austin:
Thanks a lot.
Ellen Lewis:
Yep. Talk.