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- Cattlemen's Coffee Shopify store
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Transcript
Scott Austin:
Hey, Scott Austin here. And for this week's episode, I'm going to do something a little bit different for the first time I'm having a guest on the podcast and you'll be hearing from Dylan Glenn of Catalans coffee. Dylan answered my request from a couple episodes ago, get advice on their website and have that recorded for the podcast. So in this episode, you'll hear Dylan and I just talk about his website and his efforts so far. And if you like this and you want to sign up for yourself, send me an email and let me know that you'd like to have the same sort of experience around your website. And this is the first time that I've recorded a podcast between two people across the internet. And it did not go well technically. So I apologize in advance for the poor quality of the audio. There's so a lot of good insight here. So I hope you find some value in the conversation. Here we go. Welcome Dylan from Cattlemen's Coffee. You volunteered for a kind of live interview and you know, review of your website. Thank you for doing that. And I'd love to start off with you telling me a little bit about cattlemen coffee and how you got started in this space.
Dillon Glenn:
This that's a great question. I appreciate you. Haven't been on the podcast. I've been listening to your podcast for several months now, but so countless coffee began from just a desire to want to sell something online. I mean, I, in college, I built websites. I learned websites and built a lot of custom WordPress sites for clients. Even though it's always been a side hustle. And at some point I made the transition from working on other people's websites to wanting to build my own brand and my own website that facilitate that. So I did blogging for a while with a hobby and just blog that never really made any money. I did set up a Shopify store three years ago now, and it's been fairly successful. Even the COVID has hit it really hard and I had to shut it down this year.
Dillon Glenn:
I was sitting on the couch one night. I had a buddy text me and says, what do you know about coffee? Like, come over, looked into it. I know the apps, the Shopify integration. I just didn't have the name or the audience that compelled me to start it at the time. And he's like, you like Western stuff. What about cowboy coffee? And we did a little research and then that he texted me that in late July and here we are, it took me three months to build a brand and get it up and running. And we've been live for about six and a half weeks now.
Scott Austin:
So is your business partner, a coffee person or like from a business standpoint or how did you guys end up on coffee as the place where you wanted to build your first online?
Dillon Glenn:
Right. He's coffee snob or coffee guru? I drink coffee every day. Just like many people would drink coffee. I wouldn't say I'm, I'm an expert in the coffee field. But I have the website and, and the marketing experience from my other shop, professor Warren website's up previously. So these more of the coffee guru, whereas I'm more of the website marketing person
Scott Austin:
Makes sense. Makes sense. So he's more of the product and you're more of the customer acquisition side of things. It sounds like correct. Now in this space, I believe that most Shopify stores should have some sort of unique selling proposition, right. USP. have you thought about in, in Cattleman's what your USP is and how you're going to differentiate yourself from the competition?
Dillon Glenn:
Sure. I certainly have I mean my first value proposition is craft roasted coffee. That's delivered fresh. So upon the customer ordering it's then batch, roasted and delivered as soon as possible to the customer. So it's always relisted for us and delivered in its peak freshness as quickly as we can get it there. The other value proposition is just the audience that we have is, is marketing it to that Western rancher, cowboy lifestyle or people that want associate with that. And it's an audience that I felt was kind of missing out on some of these mainstream marketing efforts by other coffee brands.
Scott Austin:
So I'm going to just be blunt blunt with you about certain things here on the universal selling proposition or the unique selling proposition of fresh roasted. That makes sense, right. Fresh roasted that's important. Is that unique? Don't other brands also do the same thing or is there something I don't know about this space?
Dillon Glenn:
No, I guess it's not unique. I mean, it's, it's not unique to the other online brands that are operating in the same space. Obviously if you could add your local grocer, then that's not going to be a bad choice for us because there's you know, delivery chain and other marketing and wholesale clients in there. So it's, it's not a unique to just us. I guess the more uniqueness to us is the, the Western flavor of the Western audience.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely want to dig into that a little bit for, for those of you are listening on the audio only, you know, not just the name, Cattleman's coffee, but everything about this website says old West and, and in him they even use verbiage. I'm going to scroll down on the homepage here and, you know, there's this one line here, seriously delicious craft roasted for Cowboys, cowgirls, ranchers, and hardworking Americans. So you, when I first saw your website, Dylan, I was intrigued by this focus. Can you tell me how you came up with this and how you that's going to help you? You know, cause I love focusing on a niche. I'm wondering, you know, what sort of data you have behind this niche, like w what's the size of this market. And do you think this will really help you differentiate with that market?
Dillon Glenn:
Right? to be honest, I don't know the actual size from data points. I've never looked into that I guess, or I've never known how but being, yeah, my family has a ranch in Montana, you know, I, I grew up on a ranch horses all my life, so that's just, that's an audience that I see and interact with a lot. So you're, you're part of that audience is what I hear you saying. Correct? Yup. And so I don't know. I mean, I listened to a bunch of Shopify podcasts because I already had a previous Shopify store that was a drop shipping technique or style of SOC five website where I dropped shipped items. And so this, yeah, just listening to the podcast, all the experts and all the homework I've done led me to set this up the way I have and listen to your podcast, you know, lifestyle images, single point focus, really drive home what this brand is to that customer and try to strike a nerve with them.
Scott Austin:
Totally makes sense. And you know, and look at your website, you know, I like, you know, I totally respect the way you've carried it through everything I'm even looking like in your little announcement thing. It talks about free shipping and it's an emoji with a cowboy hat, which I didn't even know existed, but you've got them up there. Right? So you're carrying that consistently through, which is really nicely done. Have you gotten any feedback from customers? So there's nothing wrong with not knowing the data right. When you go out and start your business. Most of us don't know all the data behind things. Well, what we're doing is we're, we're validating assumptions, right? And the first assumption I see you making here is having a cowboy theme brand will help attract you to an audience and help differentiate you with an audience. And I'm wondering in, in the, you know, a few weeks, a month, now that your business has been up, have you gotten any feedback or validation on, on that assumption yet?
Dillon Glenn:
Right. So I had the rib side website ready to go late September and we did a soft launch, but was still password protected. And what I did is we we've been turning social media since late July when we started that yet, as soon as we had the idea, we started social media channels just to gain interest. We sell some early interest when I did a soft launch. What I did is I reached out to those interested parties. I handpicked a dozen people from the social media account and said, here's the password. The website is a discount for a free product. Please go test the website or her product and give me feedback. And what I did is I created a Google form that I sent to them a week later to collect the feedback. And then also just all those individual conversations that I had. And everybody was extremely positive. They thought that we were already way bigger than what we currently were. So it's just been, the feedback has been nothing but positive from the user or customer standpoint.
Scott Austin:
Yup. Yup. And what people say and what they do can sometimes be different. And I love the fact that you're approaching it this way. Right. And you're going out and you're giving people samples and discounts and stuff like that. Have you seen anybody who you gave a discount to order a second time? Have you had any repeat purchases yet? Because that'll be a really good validation for you.
Dillon Glenn:
So my top fans which I do track, they have been, they have four or five purchases to this point separate order instances. And if I'm looking at my data, I'm averaging about 22% return customer rate, Oh, this has been really positive. It's like it, everybody that, I mean 22%, I mean, the data is there that if they make the first purchase, they come back at some point.
Scott Austin:
That's totally awesome that that's some good validation so far. So it sounds like, you know, you've got a product and a price point and a brand that's appealing to this early set of users who you've found through your different marketing efforts. And that's proving out that, you know, it's working now the question for you becomes correct me if I'm wrong, but how big of that audience, how big is that audience for you? How are you going to find them, attract them and retain that, all that good stuff. What are you thinking about for your different customer acquisition channels moving forward and scaling up
Dillon Glenn:
Right now? We're doing mainly, we're doing Instagram and Facebook, but we're focused on Instagram for the majority. Cause that's where we're getting the most traction. I have an am boning Facebook ads, even though I am not doing it to cold traffic, that proved to not be successful early. So I've killed that. And I'm only doing it two weeks as a retarget measure right now. Because I understand customers need to see a brand or product three to seven times before they can make a purchase. And so advertising to cold traffic, wasn't beneficial, but advertising to warm traffic has been beneficial. We plan to we're looking at Pinterest, we're looking at YouTube and some other channels in the future once we master and kind of figure out what we're doing now.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. That, that totally makes sense. And the fact that you reach targeting, right, that that's the first advertising anybody should be doing. And you quickly learn that lesson because as we all know, you know, once you go on a website, it kind of chases you around the internet and it works right. It's effective. You keep yourself top of mind with someone who is already interested in you. So, and retargeting is doing that for you. It sounds like it's doing pretty well.
Dillon Glenn:
Right? My other Shopify site operated solely off Facebook ads with cold traffic and saw a decent return to cold traffic, but it was a very, it was a cheaper product and it didn't have a brand. So it was just a product. There was no real brand or lifestyle that was connected to that. But for what I was selling at what price point people would just, it was, they would impulse spot. But this being a brand and being a lifestyle that people connected with, it was a total different approach in the marketing efforts.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. That makes sense. And you know, the beautiful thing for you here is, you know, your price points, you know, started at like about $15. And it's really hard at that price point. If you're just selling one product to one customer, you know, customer lifetime value of one order to profitably, you know, acquire traffic, you can't, you can't acquire Facebook traffic profitably at that price point, but you have a subscription offering and repeat purchases. So your customer acquisition gets amortized over multiple purchases instead of just a single purchase because it's, it's a product that doesn't need refilling. So the fact that your coffee and any sort of consumable lends you to that subscription, which allows you to invest a little more in that customer acquisition side of things, because you get to amortize it over a longer order order life cycle.
Dillon Glenn:
Right. And I'm certainly taking that into effect too, especially with the subscription plan and some of the discounts I'm doing. And like, it's just, it's, it's the bait or it's the, it's a nibble it's appetizer to get them in the door to make that first purchase. And then after that, we own the journey, you know, with using Klaviyo and all the touch points with do email marketing and social media marketing connected to our social media accounts. We're hitting that customer and touching base with that customer on multiple levels moving forward.
Scott Austin:
Yeah, it makes sense. And I absolutely love Klaviyo as, as a CRM tool. And it's definitely my favorite and it's especially important because you've got to get people to subscribe even when they try your product. Once you know, it's up to you now, now that you've got that, that email address of theirs in there in your order history, you get to go back when your direct campaigns, instead of advertising, trying to find them social, you get to do the emails. And it'd be interesting to see. I would love to see what your flows look like. You know, how many emails do you actually send out to a first-time order to try to get them up to up to the subscription level?
Dillon Glenn:
Well it certainly would love to talk more about Klayvio. It's new to me. I hadn't ever used it before this experience. I was looking at a couple of different ones and between your podcast recommending it and the tighter integration with shop five, that's what I picked. I was also considering Omni sin, but I choose Klayvio and the learning curve is steep. But once I kind of dove in and spent some time under the hood, it makes sense. So my out of my flows, that was the first thing I did. I I've only recently sick campaigns, but flows. I had set up on the website from day one because I knew that that's what I wanted to do. And my welcome series is by far my most profitable, it sees the most traction. And I think I have three emails for if they don't use the coupon out of the bat.
Dillon Glenn:
So offer a 15% coupon right off the bat. So if you subscribe and do the double opt in, you automatically get the 15% discount. If you're a first time customer, if you're not a first time customer, so you've purchased, but you didn't sign up or go through the welcome series. And then you ended up going through the welcome series flow. After your first purchase, you don't get the discount. So it's only on first time purchase. And then the second email is basically an about us, you know, good, strong audits, what are our three pillars of value? And then if you hadn't used the discount, I would send you a reminder that says, Hey, the discounts still valid. You have 48 hours left to use it. And that's where I'm picking up. A lot of customers is that second email. We money them, limited time offer. Yep.
Scott Austin:
Now, you know, you called that your welcome series. And I usually break up welcome series into two separate buckets, right? The first welcome series is a welcome to a subscriber. And that's someone who either through a form on your website or a pop-up ads, their names, your email list, but doesn't make a purchase. And those are the people, you know, I can see, you know, you get your save 15% and that kind of stuff, discount codes. So they get one welcome series. And I usually set up another welcome series and that's for a customer, right? So on the welcome in Klaviyo, you can trigger flows based on how they signed up, right? So you can have different, you know, flows based on which form they use. So I always set up the welcome subscriber. One based on usually I have two forms, one that's embedded in the homepage and one that's a popup.
Scott Austin:
I just trigger it based on those two. And then I trigger the other one for the customers based on submitting an order. And then I've had one customer we just set up recently. She has six different if Dan's in that customer one, and basically if they've ordered once or twice or three times ordered four order five, and she has a different message for each one of those based on how many times they've ordered. So it sounds like you right now have a welcome flow based on a subscriber. And the, the first question I have is is that based on subscriber, based on a form, or is that just anybody that gets added to your Klayvio master list? I usually call it a newsletter. How, how are you triggering that flow?
Dillon Glenn:
It's based on subscribers that they have to subscribe through one, either the popup form or the main form on the homepage, if they place an order and just, you know, check for acceptance marketing, they get added to the newsletter, but it doesn't trigger the welcome suits flow. I guess your, your advice would be to have a second flow that would trigger other, add like a different series without the discount. That would just be more about us and, you know, warm them up to the brand bore.
Scott Austin:
Absolutely. And you'll actually find in, in building a brand that second welcome series based on purchase is your most valuable brand tool in all of your arsenal, right? Because now you've got someone who's likes you enough to give you money and now you get to build a relationship with them. And that flow should go along the lines of something like, Hey, here, here's the two founders, you know, Dylan and I, we haven't talked about your founder's name yet, but you're your co founders. Amen. I would actually talk about the two of you guys, right? You definitely, and I don't mean this in any offensive way at all. You sound like a cow poke to me. Right. and, and that gives you authenticity. Like I wouldn't be showing this, I'd show your, your family ranch in Montana and you with a horse or, or whatever kind of thing.
Scott Austin:
And the same thing with your business partner. That's your first email. Your second one would be about the coffee they're about to receive right. Or have received right about now. And you talk about where it gets sourced from if it's ethically sourced and the fresh roasting process and how you come up with your blends and all that kind of stuff. And then your third email, you gotta figure, you know, got your coffee by now might be how to use it some recipes, or, you know, if they've got whole beans, how you recommend, they grind it and stuff like that. And then your fourth one might be, Hey, do you want to do a second order? And that might be 30 days down the road from wherever they made the purchase, whatever the average consumption time is for your product. And then if they still haven't, you know, bought it the second one and you can have in your flow based on that another 15 days out, are you sure you don't want to order a second one, right. And that's for your first time purchase your second time purchasing after that, I wouldn't end with the, Hey, do you want to make another purchase? I would end with the, Hey, do you want to subscribe now? Here's the benefits of our subscription program?
Dillon Glenn:
No, that makes total sense. And I, I mean this my first time using Klaviyo to do any this amount or this scale, you know, marketing. So for the first time of thing, I picked up this template off of other podcasts, I'll listen to and just said, that sounds great. I'm sure it'll work for me. And so I just followed that template or the advice that they gave it typically this and I had always planned in the back of my head to expand on this or additional to do exactly what you said the future. Right now I'm just waiting on more traffic and more data to fill this in. So I kind of know what pieces are working. Both pieces are art.
Scott Austin:
Yeah, it makes sense. And if you look at a Klayvio installation on somebody who's been using it for years on a big scale of business, you would be amazed at how complex these flows become, because you're going to learn over time, certain things. For example, I have one client and they sell high-end silk sheets here in the United States, but they also shipped to Europe. And when they shipped to Europe, they actually charge there's import taxes and it's a heavy shipping cost and it's really expensive. So they get a huge abandoned cart on their international orders. And we ended up creating flows that if they banded in carton, the U S we do one thing, they abandoned cart, and they're in you in United Kingdom or the rest of EU. We do another thing and explain, Hey, these are the taxes. This is in us. This is your government. And here's the shipping cost. And by the way, when you combine all this, we're still better quality for a better price than the European competition is, and that kind of stuff. But we learned that by looking at the business, seeing, you know, what types of people were bending cards, making some assumptions about that and testing those assumptions out and coming up with a much more intricate flow, but really optimized for this exact business situation that they had.
Dillon Glenn:
And that makes total sense.
Scott Austin:
So let's, let's take a look at your store. Cause you know, one of the comments you made that your, your customer said, they thought you were bigger than you actually are. You know, I get what they mean by that, right. Your store for a brand new store. And you know, there's not a lot of products here. You got, I don't know what your total catalog of 12 or so coffees, you've done a really good job in bringing everything together. You know, it looks like someone spent time and cared, right. And, and that's the way I explain it to people. Like just the fact someone sets up, you have a staged photo right now in your homepage for the holiday timeframe where there's a few bags of your coffee with some Christmas decorations and some reindeer. Right. And just the fact that you set that up and took that photo.
Scott Austin:
I don't know how long it took you. Right. But just the fact you did that customers noticed that maybe not consciously, but I fully believe that subconsciously there's a lot of things that people can tell. They put effort towards that they being the store. And that just means that you're more serious, right. In today's world where it's so easy to create a Shopify store or to, you know, load products into Amazon. There's a lot of fly by night. There's a lot of people who are, you know, disreputable or a lot of concerns that Cuffers have, like if I actually submit my credit card, as people will put it in an order, is there somebody, a breathing body other end who's actually going to fulfill it or not. Right. and
Dillon Glenn:
I completely understand what you're saying. And from all my experience, developing websites and working on websites, my previous experience within the Shopify store, you know, this was all home grown. I mean, we bootstrapped everything. All the work you've seen is our own. We do have a couple of stock images in there. But you know, the labels we did ourselves, this photo was taken by my business partner. Everything's been and it's been a lot of time, a lot of effort, but we were proud of it.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. And your stock photos are completely on brand. Right. I'm, I'm scrolling down your homepage and I assume you mean the Cattleman's club, which is a cowboy silhouette one and a good, strong, honest. Yup. Yup. And, but they, they fit right in. Right. And they don't, they don't look as stock. As some of them do, like for some reason, there's a lot of, you can tell when your stock photo was shot, like in Eastern Europe or in some parts of Asia. And you know, these are obviously a little more culturally relevant kind of thing. Like I was literally before this call getting on and changing one of my client's stock photos where he has off-road parts and I was putting an Arizona license plate over the EU license plate to make it a little more geographically relevant for them. Cause we, we don't have a good Arizona off-road Jeep photo that we could find on the internet.
Scott Austin:
So we, you know, we had to, we had to change the license plate out. So, you know, those little details make a difference here. And like, you've got this color schemes is obviously, you know, coffee, Brown kind of thing going on. Now I'm going to go to your about page because what you're trying to do is differentiate yourself with a brand. Right. And what I always tell my clients is, and I'm not saying that this is what you're doing here, but a lot of my clients try to seem bigger than they are. And by bigger, I mean, they try to seem like a big corporation. And I love the fact that you're not doing that here. Right here, here you have Dylan and Taylor signing off on the about page, which is great. My, my advice to you here though, is this page here is where you get to build a personal relationship with customers.
Scott Austin:
And you know, you see this at a lot of user flows. Nobody comes to the about page. The second they come to a website, right. They browse around for a bit and they shop and then they're like, Hey, I like what I see here. I'm about to make a purchase. Who am I buying this from? Right. And they'll, there'll be in the cart or something go to the about page. They'll like what they see, and then they'll go check out kind of thing. So think about this page as your opportunity to build a personal relationship with someone who's about to purchase from you. And you've already said that your brand is really important, right? And it's one of your differentiators, here's where I would show that picture of you on the ranch with the family in Montana or something of that effect. I would show photos of both you and Taylor, right? You're, you're brave enough to sign your names there, which is awesome. Put some faces behind that. Yeah.
Dillon Glenn:
One of the next things we're going to do once we can together and do that, that's, that's what upgrades we have
Scott Austin:
And, and tell the story and what I tell people when, when they do that kind of thing, you know what I mean? By tell the story is like, literally find, find a third person there's there's you and Taylor find a third person that is a potential customer of yours and pick up your phone and hit record and record yourself, talking to them about your store. And now my phone converts that straight to text to medium, it's built in, it's an app built into my phone. If your phone doesn't do that, there's software that you can convert that spoken word into text, and then take that text as the starting point of the copy for your about page. Don't start writing into a keyboard because we get too formal when we do that, right. If I was, you know, to talk to, you know, give you advice non-verbally through text, it would sound very different than what I'm seeing right now. So I would encourage you just walk up to somebody and start telling them about your brand. Tell them the story about you and Taylor, how you got started your passion around coffee, what you're here for all that good stuff. And it'll actually sound pretty good. Right? And that'll be a good starting point for your about page instead of trying to pound the keyboard and write something out. It's way harder for me and many people to write into a keyboard where it's a lot easier to tell the story verbally and then use that as text.
Dillon Glenn:
No, that's a, that's a great tip.
Scott Austin:
And then, you know, when I look at your, your contact page, you know, one of the things that's great here is you're showing people that you're willing to listen to them by, you know, putting your email address up there and your phone number. If you're willing to accept phone calls, Oh, you've already got on the homepage, it's in the footer. That's really nice. That's a great trust indicator that the fact you're putting up a phone number. Even if you don't answer it right, even if it goes to voicemail kind of thing, you pick it up later, putting a phone number of in publishing that you know, is one of those indicators that, Hey, we're serious and we're legit. And we care about you. People resonate with that. There's, there's so many websites that will not publish a phone number or an email address. It's only the contact form
Dillon Glenn:
Something. I guess that's a question I have for you is how much, because I see a lot of, you know, fly by night Shopify stores and have all these trust benches and authorized by. And I know it's fake. I can spot it on both sides, but so like, how do I build trust? How do I show trust authentically without being really spammy or over the top with it. And so I tried that through here, you a little pony express graphic and some stuff. And I thought about adding, you know, a value trust badge in there is satisfaction guarantee statement in there as well. And so that's something maybe you could expand on.
Scott Austin:
Oh, totally. So I'm a huge fan. I call them product seals or product icons. I don't the word trust badge, because it's so overused, right? If you do an internet search or trust badge right now, you'll see all these images of they'll show up. And all people are doing is throwing up an icon for SSL or, you know, credit cards and all that kind of stuff. And it does look spammy because each one of them has their own size and their own weight and that good stuff. So they, they look consistent, right? They, they, they don't look uniform at all. So what I do is, and they're also very generic. Like every website is SSL today, right? Now there, there is some best practices that say having the little lock icon on the add to cart or you know, the checkout page and the car is a good thing to do and those kinds of things.
Scott Austin:
But I think people are way too spammy and way too inconsistent by just bro-ing up logos from somebody, right. From wherever they could. What I try to do with the store is come up with, you know, what are the objections? People are going to have to buying your products, right? So, you know, one objection, you know, you're not closing, but a big one for clothing is how easy are returns. So for a clothing store, we'll put up an easy returns product seal. Right. You know, and I, I usually put a set of them underneath the add to cart button. Right, right. Where you've got your, your pony express course right now.
Dillon Glenn:
And I thought about adding a satisfaction of your tea. Keep it, obviously keep it on a brand, but adding it right below that one towards scene, when they do that, you mentioned that lock icon. I don't have it on the actual car, but I didn't have it on the checkout when you on the car page, edit that.
Scott Austin:
Yeah, I would, I would leave it. I wouldn't put one here. I did, you know, I did say it here originally, but I like it better in the cart page, not on the add to cart button because here, when, on the add to cart button, my mind says, Oh, they're locking that from me. It doesn't, it's not clickable, but it actually is. It's a little bit weird there. But on the product seals, some other things that I do, right? So you could have a satisfaction guaranteed logo, and then you could have a tool tip effect on hover that people could, you know, read more information about it or can click to your, your warranty kind of thing. But like common products seals that I put up for people are things like made in the USA, free shipping whatever, like certifications you have like organic or ethically sourced.
Scott Austin:
And then what I do is I take all those different icons and logos and I make them all look exactly the same or consistent, right. So I'm actually working on one for a chocolate store right now. And I mean, and we've actually come up with a very similar color scheme where it's the darker Brown and the lighter Brown together. And all of her products, seals that I've made for her are all round with text in the same place and uses three colors, the dark Brown, the light Brown and white, the consistent. Yep. Yep. And I've even gotten some, like, you know, she gets her coffee beans from somewhere tropical and there's this tropical organization about ethically sourced and that kind of thing. And their logo is green. I changed it to Brown. I used their same thing, but I changed the colors to map really well.
Scott Austin:
So there's that consistency behind them. And that's one of those, you know, things we talked about earlier where customers can tell you went through some effort to do that. Right. I can tell you went through a lot of effort already on your, your, your store where, you know, you have the icons for the medium rows and they look consistent with the other icons that show up. Cause I know on other products you have, you have other icons and they look like they're a set and you spent time doing that same thing with your product seals, product seals are a really good way to tell a customer who's about to click, add to cart, why they should not resist adding it to the cart. Right. And like I said, every business is different, but for you, that satisfaction guaranteed is a really important one.
Scott Austin:
Right. And don't know if that's a money back thing or whatever, but you know, explain that to people, if you, whatever your free shipping policy is or, you know, if your coffee is actually made in the United States or, or roasted in the United States I'm a big fan of letting American audiences know what products they're buying or what services are buying are American. Right. Just the fact you're American owned is a differentiator compared to some of the other others out there kind of thing. So whatever all those products deals are. And then I usually do that with, you know, in liquid code. I usually just if then statements, right? For you with all your coffee being a little bit different, you've probably got tags that say this one's organic and this one's that, and that kind of thing.
Dillon Glenn:
Yeah. The, those feet up top where it says maybe the rows that's on that based on tag, you actually helped her with the carrot on that. And some coffees we'll have three, some will have two, depending on with their organic they'll have a specific single origin. So I have an icon there and the organic has a different icon.
Scott Austin:
Yep. Yeah. And I like the medium roast and those kinds of things up there. Cause those are telling me the differences between the products, right? The flavor, that kind of thing. And then the product seals would tell, you know, the, you know, busting the objections to purchase kind of thing. We're gonna, you know,
Dillon Glenn:
I'll put this stuff up there because that's inherent to the product. What do, what's the quick information about this product that would be awarded to the customer and then anything that's, you know, trustworthy, if any of that I'll put down below the button.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. I totally agree with that logic. That makes a lot of sense to me. So let's take a step back and we jumped to the product page. What I want to do is I want to go to your coffee page, which is your collection page, your whole shopping experience and in any store shopping experience, the way I explained it is the shopping experience is a decision making process, right? A lot of stores, all they do is display their products. They just show a list of products and they don't help customers make decisions. And one of the best examples of this is the largest e-commerce store in the world. Amazon, they do an absolute horrible job of helping a customer, make a decision. They leave that up to the product themselves to, you know, the product has to like really scream at you. I'm great.
Scott Austin:
And here's why, because Amazon's throwing 17 other promotions on that page for competitors to that product. And you know, that's a nature of Amazon having every product in the world for sale in one store, right. They couldn't have a good guided shopping experience, but you as a small store with a small product catalog are the exact opposite and you can have a really good guided shopping experience. So the way I think about that is, you know, you want to walk customers through step by step making a decision at a time, right? And like, here's a great example with your main navigation. Do you want coffee or apparel? I'm making a decision. Those are easy to make. I'm here for coffee. I click on coffee. Now in this page here, what I would recommend for you to think about is how can you have the differences between the products explained on this page, because this is a decision-making page, you've got a list of your, your, your coffees and looks like there's 10 of them here. Right? And I've got some filters, so I can see which ones are dark, light, medium, organic, and single origin. How can the product description explain the differences and by product fusion. I mean this, this image and text here, not the actual product description on the product page. How can that explain the differences between these products?
Dillon Glenn:
I've thought a lot about that. And I, at one point I had implemented this solution, but this solution was kind of half baked. And so I'd be interested in your ideas on how to implement that with either icons additional text or some, how, how can I put fray, you know, what sizes are available, what types or, or style hoping ground, like how can I display that or show that here without it being cluttered.
Scott Austin:
Yup, yup. And really nice job. And making your background photos match your color background of your website and not being the Amazon white standard. That, that kind of detail is really sweet. You know, these, these images pop really well because you've matched the background of the photo to the background of the website. And I, I kind of derailed there, the reality of, you know, the, how I would do that. If I was you, I would somehow think about how to factor these icons into this product image.
Dillon Glenn:
Okay. And that's been an idea I've had I just redid these images and I appreciate your compliment on those. And that's an idea I've had, I just know that's going to be a lot of work shy too. But I just got, you know, what's the best route to go
Scott Austin:
Well, doing that as an image is a lot easier than doing it in code, right. That's what I'm saying, an right on your collection page, if your image and beds a whole bunch of information and through icons that, you know, that means you don't have to do it in code and just easier to do it is work, but it's, it's, I think it's easier for most people than it is to do it at the code level. And then also it's really contained. Right. So, you know exactly what it's gonna look like as opposed to worrying about the responsiveness, if you've got, you know, text or icons elsewhere on the page, and then how does it work on mobile? It's a really predictable experience. I don't recommend embedding things in photos too often, but in this case, that's something I would try because your products, you know, your products are very portrait in a square photo, which is the way you should, you know, have all square photos that gives you a lot of white space on each side or tan space. In your case, you can move the product over a little bit, thrown a couple icons. And I think that'll drive it home really well.
Dillon Glenn:
Right. My plan was to have all the lifestyle photos here that you see them better than the product images, but until I reshoot and make every single one specific and identical, because they are specific to the product because they have the product in now, but the background is similar or a few. And so I'm gonna put all the lifestyle photos in the collection. It didn't really have it, that much differentiation between the different products. So that's why, what was that planer? Just the coffee bag on the collection page. And with that you're right. I could add icons in there too, to show some of the sub information.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. And I always recommend that on the collection page, you have, what I call, you know, this year is the Amazon product photo, right? Where it's just the product. I would not recommend putting the lifestyle shots on a collection page because this is a decision page. Right. And what you're trying to show here is the differences between your products. And if you clutter it with a backdrop of a lifestyle image, that's too confusing, it needs to be brain dead, simple, the differences between your products here and let people make decisions, right. Because they've already engaged with you to say, I want coffee. That's how they got here. Now we're trying to help them with that decision. Right? So your, your collection page we talked about how that's part of your decision-making process. And then I like how on your product page, you're having them choose between, you know, whole bean and ground size. Now, some of your products I noticed come in multiple sizes, others don't they just come in one size. I usually don't do a product choice of one. So here it's a size 12 ounces and that's it. Right.
Dillon Glenn:
So I'm gonna add it to all the main ones, which is why I set it up that way in the beginning, I've just recently started adding it to the kid, the three flavors or roasts that I have we'll do. Yup.
Scott Austin:
Yup. And then, you know, they have the option to subscribe and you can change the, you know, the delivery frequency and all that good stuff. That's nice. You might want to just kill a couple of these options here. Right. Nobody's going to do every nine weeks. I assume you probably want to do one to four weeks and months so they can, you know, that kind of thing, just to, just to limit choices as all that's, that's a really small knit. And then you're, you know, you're using, it looks like judge me for reviews, which I absolutely love. You're already getting reviews, which is totally awesome. You know, which, and you know, one of the nice things when you're looking at reviews is how, how frequent they are or how recent they are. So it's going to be important for you over time to make sure you keep getting recent reviews. And on this page here, the most recent one is less than a month ago. But even more valuable if that was, you know, three days ago. Cause it just shows to customers that, Hey, people are purchasing this even today kind of thing.
Dillon Glenn:
Do you know, I haven't looked, do you know if that date is when they purchased or put in the review?
Scott Austin:
That's when they put it in the review and you don't have a all reviews link in the footer, which would judge me as an easy thing to set up and build you a template for it. I would make an all reviews thing and that's a good Google best practice. Google likes to see a page with all your reviews on it, especially if you're advertising with them and you're not doing now, but it's just good stuff for down the road. And then if I add to your cart, I'm going to go one time purchase. I like the promo here. Is this the one that, that, that I talked about one of my podcast episodes? Or did you do this yourself?
Dillon Glenn:
Yeah, we actually exchanged quite a few emails on this. So I'm using both your car promos, the shipping threshold, but just as shared right now, like a holiday promotion is free shipping. So I just turned that off in the meantime, normally that would be shown with the math that says you need X amount of dollars to get free shipping. And then this is the car upsell cross sell module that you have the copays for from your podcast. And then I tweaked it. I added the price. I added the federated options. Yeah,
Scott Austin:
That's really nice. I like that a lot. And how many, how many products you have queued up in that?
Dillon Glenn:
Three, I have the same three default that you set up thought about adding more, but I haven't seen the need.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and some of the think about right is throw a hat in there or throw some of your parallel in there. You know, they're already buying coffee, maybe your first product or your second product or something like that is one of your branded items just to see if you know, you're already buying coffee. Hey, do you want one of, you know, and some of your t-shirts are kind of funny, right? Definitely a part of your brand. Maybe you throw in one of them and see if that helps also
Dillon Glenn:
Because I did have one last week, cause the third option does my holiday sale, my holiday coffee. I made it all, I guess a good saying or that I learned about back because I keep your main thing, your main thing, I don't know. Coffee's about main thing, so you're right. And, and I have done that or assure that they're for Brendan.
Scott Austin:
Yup. Yup. Well, and you know, I totally agree with the main thing is the main thing, except you know, that, that's one of the reason I made that element for that, that cart is you can let people know about stuff that they could possibly get that they weren't thinking about because you are a coffee store. But this is a way to build a little bit of awareness of without getting in their face and slowing things down.
Dillon Glenn:
Right. And I've seen like a collection or like related products on the car page is pretty common. And I, I prefer your solution to a single product versus that was above the checkout button versus a product collection below the checkout button.
Scott Austin:
Yup. And then I'm looking at your checkout, it's nicely branded little image at the top. That's nice. Right? You're carrying that, that coloring all the way through, you might want to just make this background the same tan, the rest of your site is
Dillon Glenn:
I tried that, washed it out.
Scott Austin:
You're thinking all the right stuff. And then tell me about the Cattleman's club.
Dillon Glenn:
So that's the subscription service and you know, I'm using both V1, which doesn't have the API. So if I look at the API version and every compared to use it, they have this really nice branded page that walks you through. Why would you do the subscription? Here's the features, just the benefits. And then it shows you the schedule. What you can pick on this is my attempt to kind of be halfway. So I can still use that V1 subscription service, but still have a custom branded page that speaks to why you should sign up for this and the benefits and to make you feel part of the club for doing so. So this is a coastal page that I created a custom template for to have all of these variables in here. And then I just have a costal. I just created a collection. And I'll love that collection here, that syncs with my subscription program.
Scott Austin:
Yup. And the header right now, right. You, I love the fact of your header is just shopping links. Cattleman's club, coffee, apparel, that's it. And men know about us knowing all those fluffy things, our mission, all that garbage. Right. It's just shopping. I love that. However, you've Cattleman's club first and Cattleman's club is really just a subscription. Right? It's cause it sounds like when you say Cattleman's club, like I'm paying to be part of this organization or something like, it seems like a bigger obstacle by calling it Cattleman's club than just saying it's a subscription and you're putting that front and center. It's the first thing people see. Right. So I totally agree. You should have subscription. And my recommendation would be promoting that to your customers, but not so predominantly on your website, right? You want to promote Cattleman's club or a subscription offerings, subscribe and save right to your people that already have bought your coffee.
Scott Austin:
You know, if I haven't bought your coffee yet, what you want me to do is to buy your coffee. And once I buy your coffee, then the next goal was to buy a second order or a third. And then somewhere in there, right between one and five, there's a number of people are going to hit that it's a no brainer. They should be subscribing now. So a lot of people, you know, a lot of stores I think are too aggressive on their website with their customer loyalty or customer retention programs where they can be less aggressive on the website and way more aggressive through email. Or if you want to be aggressive on the website, do it in the right places, do it on the order. Thank you page. Do it on the customer account page and those kinds of things, as opposed to front and center in the main nav as the first item.
Dillon Glenn:
So you would not have that custom page at all. Just lick it, try to text them after the fact, or have a note about that on the product page.
Scott Austin:
Well, no, I would have the custom page, right? Where you're talking about Cattleman's club, just thinking off the top of my head, I might throw a Cattleman's club into the footer. Right. and then what I would do is in all my emails, I would have a little promo that, you know, like in the footer or something, you know, Cattleman's club subscribe and save and then link to that page that you built. That's that destination, right? That's the landing page you want them to go to, but you want to drive the right person at the right time to that destination. And you could even have, you know, a homepage promotion about it. I just wouldn't make it. The first item in your NAB is my big point. And anybody who's was in the coffee. Well on any one of those pages, they can subscribe if they want to. Right. There's not this bifurcated experience.
Dillon Glenn:
Right. I mean, even if you hear the collection on the club page, it's just all the same product. I just use some of the similar language. So they understand. So that's why I have that collection titled subscribe and save. And then I use that same verbiage in the, in the features, subscribe and save. So I'm kind of warming the customer up to that's what you need to do. And that's the verbiage. You feel safe when you look at the product.
Scott Austin:
Yep. Yeah. And the Uber point I'm making there is think about, you know, your homepage and your top NAB, especially cause your top nav, everybody who comes to your website sees your top NAB. You know, only people that, you know, search for your, your company name will, will go to your homepage. Most other people are going to go to a landing page of some sort, whether it's collection page or landing page, you designed for ads, right? So don't promote so heavily customer retention things in that space. It's because this is customer acquisition right now, once you acquire the customer, use your other tools. And that's what Klayvio is so beautiful for, for promoting your, your customer retention programs. Yeah. And like I used to work at Microsoft in the past and, and I was an MSN for a while. We were trying to come up with a subscription.
Scott Austin:
Right. And what we realized over time. And I remember this guy came out to this, this all hands meeting. We had one day and said, we've got this huge subscription wall. And what we need to build is a ladder that slowly walks them up to the wall and over it. And you've already got that. Right. They can do a single purchase, right. You don't have to promote the big, scary subscription front and center first day, you can say, Hey, buy some fabulous coffee. And then once they buy some fabulous copy, then you get to pound them left, right. And center with Klayvio to get them to buy again, buy again, buy again, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe.
Dillon Glenn:
And the data would actually support that too. So I wrote Hotjar and non all the hints and links on that. It would actually support removing them from the main nav, but the P I would love that. You'd like that idea of keeping my custom page as a landing page to send people from directly to here designed for was the landing page for the club or the subscriptions.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. One of the things I always tell my clients is you should never, ever, ever send your customers to the homepage. You should always send them to a deeper destination inside of your site because you know something about them and you should take what you know about them and apply that in that landing page. So for example, if you were to do an ad campaign right now to men in Montana, right. I would send that to a landing page of some sort, which looks Montana. Ish. If you were to, you know, do an ad campaign to women in Florida, you would have a different page, right. It might be the exact same products, but maybe just the banners different. And maybe on one of them, you say, Hey, Cowboys. And on the other one, you say, Hey, Cal ladies. Right. That kind of thing.
Dillon Glenn:
So technical question there. Yep. That completely makes sense. From a marketing side, technically, how would I achieve that? Would I just create a custom page template? Or is there a faster way of doing that? Because creating the custom page, but it's time consuming. What a theme are you using here? This is the free thing called Brooklyn.
Scott Austin:
Brooklyn. Okay. Oh yeah. It's one of the common ones I always use. Now I always use the flex theme. I used to use turbo all the time. And flex is basically turbo 2.0. Exactly. Now you have to, you have to make a new product details, template every single page. So for some stores I'm like 30 of those templates, but I'm just copy and pasting the template. It's super easy to do. The short answer to your question is, yeah, you have to make a template for it. Right. and that's why people are using themes like Brooklyn, you know, they bring in, you know, the page builder apps, that kind of stuff. I'm not a fan of those at all. I'm a big believer in, you know, getting the biggest baddest theme you can because it gives you tools like the details template, which are absolutely incredible. But for you, you've already got a custom template made today. You can just copy and paste that. Right. And change out, you know, some verbiage around it kind of thing fairly easily. Right. You'll have you basically have this one template format that you can use, you know, three or four different times for three or four different messages.
Dillon Glenn:
Yeah. But, okay. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And as you know, it's probably not that simple technically because I have to recreate each one of these sections specifically for that page.
Scott Austin:
Oh. That you've got multiple sections in one page template. They're not blocks within one section. I see. I see. Yep. Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
Dillon Glenn:
Is it a full console? What I'm doing is uploading custom sections. The way I can change this stuff out, or my business partner can change it, start out, which doesn't know kind of, you can just go ahead and select the options to change it out. That's why I did the sections. And I guess, I don't know if you want to talk about things with, can I, I mean, I've, I built this thing myself from the free thing Brookline looked and considered some premium things, but it just seemed that I'm not, it offered so many more features than what I was ready for. And I just didn't go that route. I did look at the sandbox turbo and flax, and I know you support theirs. But also know Shopify is coming out with sections anywhere. So point in the future. And so I guess that's one of my questions is at what point does it make sense for me to jump to a new nickname? Obviously I have custom Elvis building this one. I assume I'm going to have custom elements coped into the next one.
Scott Austin:
Well, so my Uber advice for you is your website is too good. And I don't mean you need to make it less good. My point being is your problem for your business right now is not your website. And that's true for most
Dillon Glenn:
Of the words, right? You're
Scott Austin:
Your biggest problem today is customer acquisition. So if I was you, I would not be thinking at all about what to improve in my website. You know, what new features to add, what new content to put up. I would be focusing more on, how am I going to acquire customers and convert them through this, this funnel? Because this funnel seems like it's already working, right? You've gotten people that are subscribed to get people to purchase it. And I see reviews showing up. So it's working. Do you know what your store's conversion rate is right now?
Dillon Glenn:
If I take out the bad data, it's, it's like 3.8%.
Scott Austin:
That's a really good conversion. Really good. Right. I always tell my clients, you know, two is good. Three is great. I have some clients who get as high as, you know, seven and that kind of stuff, but that's abnormalities 3.8 is really good. That's a sign that everything you're doing in your store is right. It's not perfect. It's never going to be done there. Those little things you're tweaking, but it's totally good enough. It's even better than that.
Dillon Glenn:
Yeah. First I appreciate that. Submit second. I I'm completely focused on customer acquisition at this time. But the, the, the, the web site coding there in the back of my mind says, when is the right time? I know it's going to be at some point in the future. I just, as I discussed with my business partner, I don't ever want to feel like we're comfortable, like the businesses running, if things great. I always want to be looking for that next step. What's that next marketing tool. What's that next marketing strategy that we can bring in more customers.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. So I always tell people that once you pick a theme plan to stay with it for years, right? Cause changing themes is hard. And I also don't believe in upgrading themes because of all the customizations you do, the upgrade processes usually do not work. So you pick a theme and you stay with it for a while and then you change it when it becomes a pain. And I had store redesigns all the time. Right. And usually it's because like a common example today is, you know, Jason is the common way that, that Google wants to scrape the data off your website. And if you've got a theme that is not, you know, doing Jason using micro data or something, that's a good business reason to upgrade. Or, you know, if you've hit some limits inside of your theme, you know, it doesn't have a good filter tool.
Scott Austin:
And you know, you've got a product catalog of a thousand items. Do you need filtering? Then you might want to upgrade to a theme of better search and filtering built-in kind of thing. So I always recommend don't do theme upgrades just because only do them when your business is hurting. And then, and then you'll you'll know it's time because it it's hurting so bad kind of thing. And it should be one of those things. When you, you upgrade it, you just breathe a sigh of relief because now you've eliminated a pain point. So I've been talking for we're going on for quite a bit here. I want to give you some time to ask any questions. If you have any, and then we can start wrapping it up.
Dillon Glenn:
What are the next growth steps or marketing stats should I be looking at, for me, I would say that's all going to be focused on customer acquisition and getting them through my funnel. But what would your advice be on that?
Scott Austin:
Well, you know, you got like four big buckets and I'm probably gonna to up with a fifth as I started listing them off of customer acquisition, right? So the, to your website, the first one is going to be Google organic. The second is going to be paid advertising. The third is going to be social and the fourth is going to be whatever other efforts you're doing with it's PR and that kind of stuff. Or if you do like affiliates and that people will link to you that way, a lot of people are thinking about, well, I'm going to be an SEO champion or I'm going to be an organic social champion. And the reality is those are really, really hard things to do. And my clients who are fabulous, you know, and, and drive a ton of traffic through SEO that converts and pays and that kind of stuff they've been doing it for five, some of them 15 years you know, literally had a website for
Dillon Glenn:
15 years.
Scott Austin:
Well, the point being is where do you get customers from today? It's going to be paid, right? So, you know, you should be thinking about, you're already doing some of the paid advertising, but you should be trying out all the different platforms for advertising, like advertising on Pinterest or advertising on Instagram or advertising on YouTube or advertising in Google search and that kind of stuff. But I would recommend picking one and having a good, you know, starting assumption why you're picking that one and then get good at it and get great at it. And then once you, you know, perfect, and it's never, never finished once you get good at it, then you move on to the next one and doing one at a time. Right. And you know, people always ask them like how many, you know, platforms or how many you own channels should I have, and you should have as many as you can, that are profitable. Right? You might find out that it sounds like you already did some of this on Facebook. It's just not profitable. And maybe you can never get it there, but try three other different ad platforms and see which ones you can get to that profitable point.
Dillon Glenn:
Right. And exactly. I mean, my other self, my store relied solely on cold traffic ads on Facebook and it worked, it was profitable. It made a great, and a lot, it made a lot of great cycles of cash for me. However, you know, I I've ran it on this store early on just to get the name out there, just to see what would happen. I was at a a hundred dollars test or well-spent and I got a lot of traffic. A lot of people came to a website, looked at it. I didn't get any ROI. It was zero purchases. All purchases of had been organic social media and my business partner to his credit, every single new follow we had on Instagram, we private messaged with discount code for, so every single one that followed us up to the first 500 people, we private message with the discount card and engage with them on a personal level.
Scott Austin:
And you know, you're not the only one, that's, that's a common theme for people who are successful with Instagram. Organic is a lot of private message and a lot of manual freaking work. Right. So, you know, you know, there's many stories will tell you, yeah, I spent three hours every night watching TV and on, on my phone Instagramming my, my customers back and forth kind of thing. Right. And that, that works. And it's manual a lot of things like we were talking before about, you know, having all those landing pages. And there's a lot of manual work in that. And a lot of building a business in a Shopify store is, is those manual things. And they do pay off. Right. And the key for you is to figure out which ones pay off and keep invest in them. And then you'll get to a point where there's enough momentum and kind of stuff where, you know, you can automate more things and it starts building on itself. But in the beginning being scrappy and reaching out directly like you're doing is a fabulous way to do things.
Dillon Glenn:
This is what we've done. That's what this works. I made it appointed is now it's, if we have a day where we get a hundred followers in one day, it's we can't message them all. It's just nearly impossible. So we've kind of moved on, but now the snowball is building and starting to kind of roll itself and pick up speed. Last question for you is what Shopify or Google analytics data should I be looking at to judge sales performance? I have followed both your guides on my Google analytics to set that up. So I have all the views in scorecard and everything.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. So I'm a big fan of using Google analytics, just because you have more control over the data than you do in Shopify. Right. and like in Google analytics, I think I've done a podcast on this one. You can extract information into a Google sheet and see these long-term views. And, and they're, they're totally awesome, but it's a bunch of work to set it up also. Right. So, you know, I do it for my clients because it's easy for me to do it because I've created once that I can copy and paste it in that kind of thing.
Dillon Glenn:
The scorecard, you put out the cheat sheets on the podcast, I've actually followed those. So I have it all set up just like you would pretty good recommendations. And it has been helpful. One unique thing is Google analytics shows me which variance I sell bore on Shopify analytics always shows me the product. So it's interesting to know that I know quits coffee sells best, but now I also know that people buy more ground coffee than they do Hopi. So consider making the ground variant the first one, the first one because of that
Scott Austin:
Total sentence. Yeah. I love that kind of looking at what customers do and adjusting based on that. So that scorecard, that Shopify scorecard that I, that I like so much in Google analytics, do you get that email to you every Monday morning?
Dillon Glenn:
I haven't set it up to email to me, but I I'm pretty religious about lifting up the data and trying to study it.
Scott Austin:
Yeah. Because what I, what I tell people is, you know, email that scorecard new yourself every Monday morning, which is easy to do inside of Google analytics and the most important numbers, your conversion rates. So you look at your total number of sales and in brackets next to it, it'll tell you what percentage of your total website that is. So that's where your 3.8% conversions coming from. So every week, the first thing you should look at is what was your conversion for the last week? And did it go up or down, right? You should always know what your conversion rate is. And then you should also look at, you know, let's say you did an ad campaign last week, or you, you did, you know, you got some press, you know, write-up or whatever it was, you should see that a traffic source to your site.
Scott Austin:
So in that scorecard, it's showing you where your top traffic sources are and your efforts from last week should show up. And I think it also shows you your top pages. So your landing pages should also show up. And it's a really good indicator of after the fact, I know what I did last week, did it actually have an impact on the business? Did it drive traffic? Did it affect my conversion rate? And, you know, in theory, you can get really detailed and all this stuff, and you can like see the conversion rate of every single source. And what I tell people is to take a step back and just look at it from that scorecard standpoint, at that higher level. And if things look like they make sense, like I did this big Facebook ad campaign last week, and I saw a lot more traffic come in and my conversion rate is stable. Then my assumption is my ad campaign was good. Right. and if the opposite happens, then, then you dig in and see what's wrong kind of thing. So I, I try to tell people not to micromanage the data, which is totally technical possible, but you know, a bandwidth constraint because none of us can scale to look at every single thing like that. So that, that scorecard is better as a heartbeat and a validation that all makes sense and then move on to the next task of the week.
Scott Austin:
Excellent. Any more questions, Dylan?
Dillon Glenn:
I think that's all I have. I'm super grateful that you invited me to be on your podcast and discuss Monday website and brand seven. It's been really positive. I appreciate it.
Scott Austin:
All right, man. Thanks for your time. It's been absolute pleasure. We went really long.