Hey everyone, Scott Austin here, and a lot of my clients recently and for the past couple of years, for that matter, have been quite concerned about,

the Ada compliance notifications they've been getting from law firms. And, you know,

as you know, I'm no attorney.

So, you know, I, I have opinions

on this stuff, but I don't know what I'm really talking about. So I thought I,

bring in an attorney

And Brenda Pagliaro was nice enough to. Come on. She's an attorney and knows a lot more about this space and can help us.

Shopify storm with a little bit with it. Render. Thanks for being here today.

We we really appreciate you being here with your expertise.

Can you just explain for the audience

a little bit about

why we should we listen to you about this subject matter?

Oh, that sounds like a fun job, getting in the middle of two people on opposite sides and helping them solve a problem.

can you explain a little bit for us? You know, a little bit of background behind, you know, Ada, what it means, what the legislation

is and the history of a little bit to bring people up to speed.

And what does that mean for websites like how is this

being applied to,

you know, websites in general? And, you know, our audience here of e-commerce stores, what should they be thinking about about making their websites accessible to be in compliance with the regulations?

Can you spell

out what a few of those guidelines in the DOJ are so people can understand, you know, the concept a little more concretely?

I understand, you know, like there's a framework and all this stuff. What

challenge that I have with my

client, I've

had many clients have been sued.

the lawyers come after, and, you know, I'm not going to talk about attorneys in front of an attorney, but

a little bit

to say things are accessible and all that kind of stuff, it's really hard to implement that. And, and I've had sites

who have, you

know, the accessibility apps. There's plenty of accessibility apps

out there

you can download from the App Store and Shopify really quickly and easily, and they still get sued

or,

you know, they get sued and then they conform and then they get sued again.

how does one protect themselves? You know, most of my stores have one concern at the moment, right? How do I not get sued? Right. What can they do, you know, specifically because, you know, we start talking about tabbing through the menus and all this

other, you

know, stuff which gets complex and really, really hard to measure

and then

also

implement kind of thing.

You know, what you know is an accessibility app good enough to stop people is a, an accessibility policy providing phone numbers, you know, what are some

concrete things they can do to

minimize or

reduce or eliminate the

likelihood of being sued?

Yeah.

You know.

Well, and Greg, if I'm wrong, but even when you settle it, it's going to take money, right? You're gonna have to pay your attorneys to be on your side, and you're going to have to probably, you know, pay cash out to the, litigious side, whatever you want to call. I don't want to call ambulance chasers, but whatever.

We're going to call those those attorneys. Because I'm very disappointed right in it. Just the reality of the fact. Right. What I heard you say is. Yeah, the the internet or the the world of attorneys is going to come and sue you over this Ada stuff, and you can't prevent that. What you can do is minimize it and prepare yourself for it.

But unfortunately, and this is true in most of the world, right. There's no silver bullet to protect yourself from this, but you have to be aware it's it's the reality that you're working in being in the e-commerce space. If it hasn't happened already, it is going to happen. And you have to spend time and energy proactively preparing for it.

And then you're also have to spend time and energy reactively when you get, you know, legislate or litigation or whatever the right term is against you on it kind of thing. Is, is that accurate?

Yep.

Yeah. Just while you were talking, I had my calculator open, and I calculated, $100,000, which was, you know, you said it was a six figure cost for your business the first time you got sued, divided by $900 million. And, you know, it's point, you know, 1.01% or so.

Because it was such a large business, even though, you know, the 100,000 is a lot of money percentage wise, it was small.

What I've seen happen is with my clients, you know, who are doing $1 million a

year, they're getting

hit and, you know, they're having to spend at least $10,000, which is their profit for the year. Right. And they

spend usually 5000

for the attorney to send them and 5000 to the, the predator, you know, firm who's coming after them.

And those are just approximate numbers. I've seen it, you know, I haven't seen it much lower than that, but I've seen it much higher than that kind of thing. And it becomes like, literally your profits go gone for the year when these things happen.

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Got.

Yep.

Well, you know, I might be a skeptic, but I don't think

our Congress can pass

anything these days. But maybe I'll be wrong and they'll pass something to move the world forward a little bit.

I've worked with some of these accessibility apps like I mentioned before. And they, you know, you had mentioned ego swag or whatever the thing was.

And 2.1. Oh

yeah. And 2.2 and I've seen that they say, oh, we're 2.2 compliant and all that kind of stuff. So I assume this is a question for you. I assume that if I install one of those apps in my store,

it's a good first step

in having that

defense that that I need to put in place.

You think do you

think it's accurate?

Correct.

yeah. As you have already actually said. Right. It that's a lot of overhead for

small stores. I have a client right now that's dude

just a few weeks ago. And it's just taken over her life just to educate herself on the process and what the rules are, and then having to find attorneys to defend and back and

forth.

And it's just like

it's ruined her. December.

And that's true for, for

many, many stores. But it's one of those it's unfortunate, but it's one of those things that's the world we live in. Right.

my

understanding very few of these actually get to the courts because they all get settled before that. Is is that accurate?

Yep.

Cottage industry makes it sound so pleasant and nice, but,

they're not that way at all.

So

I had one client who,

just, you know,

illustrate to to the audience,

how predatory it is. Right? You know, you you talk about the predatory firms,

and I had

one client who found out that a predatory firm is putting a claim against them

from other attorneys who saw that and then said, we will represent you in this case.

So it kind of look like and I don't want to say this is fact, but it kind of looked like, you know, they're all in cahoots together where the one law firm is going to sue you and the other law firm comes in and go, I will help you and represent you in this litigation type of

thing. So it

it really didn't look legit or not.

Didn't look honest. Let's put it that way.

Yep.

It's a great idea. I agree with you.

Yep.

You're still talking

You're still talking Greek to me. Up.

Yep.

Yep. I think it was the the docket, like you're saying. So

less.

Yep.

Yeah. So if I was to summarize what you're telling me here so far is

it is. Hey e-commerce store. You know there's a reality that you are required to be accessible

you're under the Ada.

Yep. And you are going to get sued because of this predator ecosystem we're dealing with. But there are things you can do to mitigate it.

And it's going to take you time and energy. Remember this smarter about the rules and all the nuances in it. You know, maybe install some technology, definitely have some process and policies that you document and that will help you mitigate, reduce, defend. But it's not going to be a silver bullet. And you're not it's not like you're you're not going to hear from these people in the future.

Is that an accurate summary?

Okay.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Just you know, the challenge with, with Shopify store owners is they're wearing a dozen hats and now they've got a 13th one we're adding to the mix, but it's just

the reality

of the world is what I'm hearing from you is, you know, you can't stick your head in the sand. You're going to have to be smart about this one.

So, if people want to get a whole new in the future brand, how could they reach out to you?

Excellent.

Well, I appreciate

you sharing your time and expertise with us on this topic today.

My pleasure. Thanks a lot.